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 VA3 VS Va6

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mvsfan



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PostSubject: VA3 VS Va6   Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:07 pm

I just picked up a nice VA3 model 1 for an awesome price cause they didnt have a power supply to test it. This thing is brand new practically. You really have to yank on the cartridge to get it out, and the motherboard is so clean you could eat off of it. all appearance is this was rarely Played.

The point of all this is that it sounds Better somehow than my VA6. Way better. the midrange and treble are all over the place on this thing, and the bass is there too, but the bass is not as loud as the Va6, its more balanced. It plays that awesome metal in the later stages of thunder force 4 with respect, it sounds awesome.

I think its due to the low hours the caps probably have not dried up yet. What do you think?
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Drakon
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:22 pm

mvsfan wrote:
I just picked up a nice VA3 model 1 for an awesome price cause they didnt have a power supply to test it. This thing is brand new practically. You really have to yank on the cartridge to get it out, and the motherboard is so clean you could eat off of it. all appearance is this was rarely Played.

The point of all this is that it sounds Better somehow than my VA6. Way better. the midrange and treble are all over the place on this thing, and the bass is there too, but the bass is not as loud as the Va6, its more balanced. It plays that awesome metal in the later stages of thunder force 4 with respect, it sounds awesome.

I think its due to the low hours the caps probably have not dried up yet. What do you think?

I've heard some before and after cap replacement audio clips on a va3 on sega16 and it barely sounded any different. I like the loudness of the bass in the va6 my only complaint with the va6 is it's a little more muffled than I'd like (I'm working on fixing that).
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:56 pm

i changed my mind and am going to sell the Va3. the Va6 wins, ivs had more time to listen to them both and decided that i like the heavy bass on the va6 better.
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:09 pm

mvsfan wrote:
i changed my mind and am going to sell the Va3. the Va6 wins, ivs had more time to listen to them both and decided that i like the heavy bass on the va6 better.

Haha. If you ask anyone on sega16 the va6 is the popular model. Today I found a way to manually tweak the bass on the va6.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:33 pm

Drakon wrote:
mvsfan wrote:
i changed my mind and am going to sell the Va3. the Va6 wins, ivs had more time to listen to them both and decided that i like the heavy bass on the va6 better.

Haha. If you ask anyone on sega16 the va6 is the popular model. Today I found a way to manually tweak the bass on the va6.

yeah, its definately the most "Metal" sounding genesis.

too bad Crue ball has such shitty sound in the game itself. it would have been awesome to hear a good rendition of some of their songs on the sega but its just not the case.

btw, some of those unliscenced tengen pinball games are pretty damn cool.
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:53 pm

Hey does your Va5 have TMSS? I just got one that doesnt have it. Sounds almost as good as the VA6 but without the annoying Tmss screen.

got that, and another 1-chip snes in the same auction - the va5 was basically free. Smile

btw, im interested in what you found about how to manually tweak the bass on the Va6. I guess it should work for the va5 too.


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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:59 pm

mvsfan wrote:
Hey does your Va5 have TMSS? I just got one that doesnt have it. Sounds almost as good as the VA6 but without the annoying Tmss screen.

got that, and another 1-chip snes in the same auction - the va5 was basically free. Smile

btw, im interested in what you found about how to manually tweak the bass on the Va6. I guess it should work for the va5 too.

Haha "sounds almost as good" The va5 and va6 are 100% identical audio hardware and circuits. And yes the va5 doesn't have tmss, I don't find tmss annoying. Yes the manual bass tweak should work on the va3 to the va6.8 they all use the same audio circuit according to my hardware geek friends.
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:06 pm

Bought me a VA6 on eBay a few days ago Smile can't wait. Got it cheap! Maybe because it didn't have an AV cable (WHATEVER WILL I DO?)
I know it's supposed to sound great already, but I can't help thinking that there's a better solution for the audio than the headphone output. Apparently that CXA-1034 IC was originally designed as a tape head amp.

It's very interesting that there's already an LM358 (2 channel op amp) in there for the DIN's audio output. I plan to split the stereo audio prior to the amp and see what I can do with the SM358's output pins to get the cleanest audio I can. If the level's hot enough (should be) I don't anticipate too many difficulties achieving this.

Planning to use RGB+Sync for the vid. It's been far too long since I've owned one of these.
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:10 am

Grambo wrote:
Bought me a VA6 on eBay a few days ago Smile can't wait. Got it cheap! Maybe because it didn't have an AV cable (WHATEVER WILL I DO?)
I know it's supposed to sound great already, but I can't help thinking that there's a better solution for the audio than the headphone output. Apparently that CXA-1034 IC was originally designed as a tape head amp.

It's very interesting that there's already an LM358 (2 channel op amp) in there for the DIN's audio output. I plan to split the stereo audio prior to the amp and see what I can do with the SM358's output pins to get the cleanest audio I can. If the level's hot enough (should be) I don't anticipate too many difficulties achieving this.

Planning to use RGB+Sync for the vid. It's been far too long since I've owned one of these.

I've gotten so many 32x systems for very cheap because they didn't come with.....cords. Then you see guys selling the cords for the same price as the 32x. Wiring a 32x into a genesis is super easy I just soldered the wires to the pcb and connect them using a header it's only 4 wires needed. I connected my 32x to my genesis using some ide cable, a 40 cent header, a little hot glue and a little patience.

Yes, there are ways to improve the audio of the va6, in fact I've already done one mod it's very easy (atleast for me it is). It's just tweaking the low pass filter. I'm just at the point where I need to get bored enough to sit down and tweak the mod before posting the results. Keep in mind this's another team effort mod between me and Ace. Ace is a great guy and a very helpful modder over on the sega 16 forums.

I'm sure replacing the cxa1034 amp would have great results. As a matter of fact tiido already went through the trouble of using a better amp in the model 1 genesis but he never made a schematic, he only recorded the results, they sound amazing, and then he dismantled the amazing work. it's already been proven to work it's just probably not worth the effort. However tweaking the low pass filter requires swapping 2 capacitors and lets you completely re-balance the treble to bass ratio / treble cutoff of the entire audio circuit so that's more than good enough for me.

Anyway I'm really looking forward to reading your progress and your results.
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evildragon



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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:57 pm

Drakon wrote:
mvsfan wrote:
I just picked up a nice VA3 model 1 for an awesome price cause they didnt have a power supply to test it. This thing is brand new practically. You really have to yank on the cartridge to get it out, and the motherboard is so clean you could eat off of it. all appearance is this was rarely Played.

The point of all this is that it sounds Better somehow than my VA6. Way better. the midrange and treble are all over the place on this thing, and the bass is there too, but the bass is not as loud as the Va6, its more balanced. It plays that awesome metal in the later stages of thunder force 4 with respect, it sounds awesome.

I think its due to the low hours the caps probably have not dried up yet. What do you think?

I've heard some before and after cap replacement audio clips on a va3 on sega16 and it barely sounded any different. I like the loudness of the bass in the va6 my only complaint with the va6 is it's a little more muffled than I'd like (I'm working on fixing that).

Really now, you don't hear this? lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kP8FQL9GU0
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:41 am

So, an update:
After disconnecting the right channel input to the LM358, I have to say, there's not much audible difference between the LM358 and the CXA-1034. Even the levels are pretty identical when the fader is fully open on the CXA-1034 and, to my surprise, the noise level was about the same.

I thought about using the LM358 for my newly installed RCAs anyways, but it appears that pins 6 & 7 actually trace out to somewhere on the motherboard confused. I didn't really find it worth the effort, so I just went with the CXA-1034's output for the time being. I just got the thing and I want to play some games Smile.


Later on when I have some extra time, I might still try using the LM358 by clipping pins 5-7. I can't imagine they serve any purpose elsewhere. Obtaining a GenMDM would further my incentive as well. Anyone have one they'd be willing to sell?
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powerofrecall



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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:55 pm

Wow, I didn't know that anyone else had noticed that LM358 so this is neat to stumble across. As far as I could tell from the schematic and look around my own VA3 board one side of the amp's two inputs really doesn't go anywhere but still has traces printed on the board. I didn't feel like messing around trying to see if I could feed it through there considering I'd have to cut traces on the board just to isolate it & remove the mono sound input in the process. My understanding is that the LM358 isn't really an audio-grade opamp anyway, so I think if I was going to go through the trouble I'd just buy another, better IC and wire it up separately pulling from pins 1 & 8 of the CXA1034 (immediately before it goes through the CXA). I'm doing that right now to my RCA mod directly without amplification and it's a bit quiet but VERY clear. No noise floor at all even when cranked up and very sharp sound with lots of high frequencies and maybe just a bit less bass.
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:01 pm

Drakon wrote:
I've heard some before and after cap replacement audio clips on a va3 on sega16 and it barely sounded any different.  I like the loudness of the bass in the va6 my only complaint with the va6 is it's a little more muffled than I'd like (I'm working on fixing that).

Kind of aside to the point but I can back this up for my VA3, it didn't improve much, but I also recapped one of my Model 2 VA 1.8s with high quality caps (nichicon PM) and the audio did get clearer--it actually made it sound worse because the distortion was more evident! The one benefit is that nasty buzz that you get from the VDP when the picture is bright was completely silenced.
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:18 pm

powerofrecall wrote:
Wow, I didn't know that anyone else had noticed that LM358 so this is neat to stumble across. As far as I could tell from the schematic and look around my own VA3 board one side of the amp's two inputs really doesn't go anywhere but still has traces printed on the board. I didn't feel like messing around trying to see if I could feed it through there considering I'd have to cut traces on the board just to isolate it & remove the mono sound input in the process. My understanding is that the LM358 isn't really an audio-grade opamp anyway, so I think if I was going to go through the trouble I'd just buy another, better IC and wire it up separately pulling from pins 1 & 8 of the CXA1034 (immediately before it goes through the CXA). I'm doing that right now to my RCA mod directly without amplification and it's a bit quiet but VERY clear. No noise floor at all even when cranked up and very sharp sound with lots of high frequencies and maybe just a bit less bass.


I think the bass is just as strong but the treble is less reduced.  The crystal clear audio mod does the same thing.

For fixing the audio in your va 1.8 check this out:

http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/t245-the-crystal-clear-audio-mod-thread


Last edited by Drakon on Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:19 pm

Check out my schematic at http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/t242-line-level-stereo-output-on-model-1-genesis-using-op-amps-not-cxa1034

Ended up with good results. No noticeable noise floor. I have no complaints with the LM358.
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powerofrecall



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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:24 pm

I'm not totally sold on the CCAM. It does sound great but it also sounds kind of thin and lacking some punch. I might try it some day when I get really, really bored and want to put that kind of work in!

Grambo, you've given me some interest in trying that out. Especially if the sound is just as transparent but louder so I won't have to turn my TV up so much. Pain in the ass when you crank it up for the genny and then watch TV or something and blow your ears out because you forgot to turn it down...
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:58 pm

powerofrecall wrote:
I'm not totally sold on the CCAM. It does sound great but it also sounds kind of thin and lacking some punch. I might try it some day when I get really, really bored and want to put that kind of work in!

Grambo, you've given me some interest in trying that out. Especially if the sound is just as transparent but louder so I won't have to turn my TV up so much. Pain in the ass when you crank it up for the genny and then watch TV or something and blow your ears out because you forgot to turn it down...


Don't consider my demonstration video as what it sounds like.  I actually modded the circuit to weaken the low pass filter which gives me treble and removes the "punch".  It's more bassy and has less distortion by default than what mine is using.  It's completely adjustable.
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PostSubject: Re: VA3 VS Va6   Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:21 am

powerofrecall wrote:
I'm not totally sold on the CCAM. It does sound great but it also sounds kind of thin and lacking some punch. I might try it some day when I get really, really bored and want to put that kind of work in!

Grambo, you've given me some interest in trying that out. Especially if the sound is just as transparent but louder so I won't have to turn my TV up so much. Pain in the ass when you crank it up for the genny and then watch TV or something and blow your ears out because you forgot to turn it down...



It's transparent on my VA6. I imagine it'll have less noise floor than your current setup since what you're currently feeding your TV will be comparable to phono or mic levels. The op amp will bring it to line level with minimal noise, which will be a far better level for your TV's amp to bring up to speaker level.
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