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 RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal

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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 10:09 am

I did more testing last night. Even with the new power switch, if i wiggle one of the wires i can literally see the sync go perfect and the lines come back. also, if i wiggle another one of the wires i get huge jailbars that come and go.

Im going to take all 5 wires out of the connector and solder them to the pins. Right now they are just crimped on. Should solve my problem and i should be ready for some serious gaming.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 11:45 am

Are you soldering everything properly mvsfan? That scart socket in the picture looks like it has a bunch of cold solder joints. You need to make sure you are tinning and heating wires and pins properly before soldering them together. Cold solder joints aren't really soldered together, are brittle, and would cause a lot of random issues. If a solder point is not nice and shiny you need to redo it. Dull solder joints are cold solder joints and can randomly break or crack with time.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 7:26 pm

[quote="Skips"]Are you soldering everything properly mvsfan? That scart socket in the picture looks like it has a bunch of cold solder joints. You need to make sure you are tinning and heating wires and pins properly before soldering them together. Cold solder joints aren't really soldered together, are brittle, and would cause a lot of random issues. If a solder point is not nice and shiny you need to redo it. Dull solder joints are cold solder joints and can randomly break or crack with time. [/quote


I dont know about cold solder joints. More like old solder joints. Ive changed things so many times in this nes that those joints are losing their shine.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 7:29 pm

[quote="mvsfan"]
Skips wrote:
Are you soldering everything properly mvsfan? That scart socket in the picture looks like it has a bunch of cold solder joints. You need to make sure you are tinning and heating wires and pins properly before soldering them together. Cold solder joints aren't really soldered together, are brittle, and would cause a lot of random issues. If a solder point is not nice and shiny you need to redo it. Dull solder joints are cold solder joints and can randomly break or crack with time. [/quote


I dont know about cold solder joints. More like old solder joints. Ive changed things so many times in this nes that those joints are losing their shine.

thankfully, the amp and stuff i just built recently is all new and the joints are nice and shiny.

Should i get my desoldering iron and take that old stuff off the scart socket and do it over with new solder?
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 7:37 pm




I was having trouble with the power switch connector making lines appear and disappear and the sync going in and out when i wiggled those wires.

I first soldered the connector pins to the wire and crimped the part that goes on the pins slightly so they would fit tighter and it got better, but was still there and the sync would go in and out when i wiggled one of the wires.

So then i just decided to hard solder the power switch wires to the nes,

Now, all those weird wavy lines are completely gone and wont come back no matter how much i try to get them to, and no more random jailbars when i wiggle the other wire.

I still have 1 wire that when i wiggle it the sync will go out so now ive traced it to the power switch side.

Whats odd about this issue, is that my meter shows perfect continuity on all the wires even though i know theres not.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 7:37 pm

That would be a cold solder joint. Number of times you do it wouldn't make it dull if it were a correctly soldered joint. Make sure you are using solder with flux, solder does not flow well or at all to oxidized metal. Also make sure you are heating the pin and applying solder to the opposite side. The only time the solder should be applied directly to the iron is when you initially tin it between cleanings. Its possible you have applied heat to the pins or wires so many times that they have oxidized and need to be clean. If you are using solder with flux you may need to use a more aggressive flux (which can be purchased separately) to remove any oxidation. When you apply solder directly to the iron you also burn away all the flux before it gets to the things you are soldering. Flux is sort of like acid and eats away any oxidation on the pieces you are soldering and thus allows the solder to flow to the heat more easily. When you see smoke coming off the iron thats the flux burning away, not lead like so many people think it is. And yes you really should redo those connections to get them soldered correctly. When its cold soldered the pieces are just sitting in the solder and can break easily. When properly soldered it actually flows onto them and creates a solid bond that won't break easily.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 7:37 pm

mvsfan wrote:



I was having trouble with the power switch connector making lines appear and disappear and the sync going in and out when i wiggled those wires.

I first soldered the connector pins to the wire and crimped the part that goes on the pins slightly so they would fit tighter and it got better, but was still there and the sync would go in and out when i wiggled one of the wires.

So then i just decided to hard solder the power switch wires to the nes,

Now, all those weird wavy lines are completely gone and wont come back no matter how much i try to get them to, and no more random jailbars when i wiggle the other wire.

I still have 1 wire that when i wiggle it the sync will go out so now ive traced it to the power switch side.

Whats odd about this issue, is that my meter shows perfect continuity on all the wires even though i know theres not.

I am also going to completely replace that 1 wire.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 7:58 pm

have a look at this all those wavy lines through everything are gone now that i hard-soldered the power/reset switch.

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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 7:59 pm

mvsfan wrote:
have a look at this all those wavy lines through everything are gone now that i hard-soldered the power/reset switch.


the bluriness and the dark band is just my camera.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 8:02 pm

now ive got to find some wire for this.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 8:02 pm

btw, i got that sheilding tape today.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 8:31 pm

This is a very quick, yet detailed soldering basics video. Great information and examples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 8:57 pm

Grambo wrote:
This is a very quick, yet detailed soldering basics video. Great information and examples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_NU2ruzyc4



ive done a few successful mods. i successfully installed tiidos mod but the volume was way too low for my liking so im trying to find a way to increase it right at the genesis.

i bought a small 3w amplifier but it doesnt work worth a shit it pops on high volume.



its just that ive changed the wires on that scart socket so many times and it was just easier to heat the old shit up. I will re-do it tomorrow.

this nes is the most difficult mod ive ever done. it is the one that has given me the most trouble.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sat May 25, 2013 9:05 pm

Also, since the rolling seems to be power related i took a measurement on the output of the voltage regulator and its reading 4.7 volts.

Would that be considered a marginal regulator or is it within the proper range?
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 12:54 pm


I also personally hard solder the ppu into a toaster just because it's suspended upside down when I do a commission. I can't risk having someones ppu fall out and short.[/quote]

one of the first things i ever did was install a cnes in that socket bunnyboy gives you, and it fell out and shorted.

i would never install something that big again unless it was hard soldered.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 1:00 pm



should i try replacing the regulator or is that a waste of time? ive got more of them here.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 2:26 pm

I put a new regulator in and now have a steady 4.99v.

my interference issues seem to have gone away for good. Now i cant recreate it no matter what i do.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 5:26 pm

I just measured the voltage on the sync line and its 4.5v. ive read before that my wega tv is expecting somewhere around 1.2v on sync.

looks like i may need a resistor on the sync line.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 6:48 pm

i forget the formula to calculate the resistance i need to drop this voltage.

Google isnt much help.
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Drakon
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 7:20 pm

Voltage divider would do it, google "voltage divider". My 51 mhz oscillators are 3.3 v I tried running them on 5v they wouldn't go. I built a voltage divider using a 100 and 200 ohm resistor and that fixed it. You find a lot of stuff online like this:



Those resistors are too strong my first voltage divider uses 10k and 20k and didn't work. Turn those into 100 and 200 ohms and see if it helps. If you need 1.2v you'll probably need a stronger divider, play with the resistor values until it works right.
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 7:49 pm

right away i found this.

http://www.raltron.com/cust/tools/voltage_divider.asp

Pretty neat.

Btw, i came up with r1 as 400 ohms and r2 200 ohms should give me 1.5v i need.

now - does it matter where i ground the voltage divider at?
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 7:50 pm

it really helps when you know What to search for on google.

half the time i dont get any results cause i dont know what im looking for.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 8:15 pm

ive got everything perfect except the roll.

my interference issues are completely gone since i changed the voltage regulator, and hard-soldered the power switch. I also applied pc thermal compound to it to dissipate heat more.

Before i changed it it was so hot i couldnt touch it that was my clue that it may be marginal.




notice how all of the wavy lines on top of that grey block in super c are gone.
and thats a great shot from dragon warrior 2.

the bit of bluriness and that black line at the top are just my camera.

i cant yet capture this with my card so this will have to do.
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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 9:32 pm

Did you actually test that this nes was working properly before modding it?
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mvsfan



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PostSubject: Re: RGB NES / Famicom and jailbar removal   Sun May 26, 2013 9:46 pm

yes it was working correctly or it seemed like it was. I had no trouble with it on composite.

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