A forum to show appreciation and respect for classic video game systems and games. Whether you're a modder, a programmer, or just a collector, this forum is about appreciating classic games and systems in a constructive community environment.
 
HomeHome  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
mvsfan



Posts : 571
Join date : 2012-03-04

PostSubject: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:39 pm

just what the title says. I have a 1-chip snes that plays some games but not others depending on which pins the game uses. all of the pins in the cart slot seem to be making good contact and when i push my finger down on the motherboard, i can get some of these games to play for a second.

it seems that one or more chips have a loose solder connection.

i was thinking of putting some flux around the chips and heating each row of pins up with my heat gun till the solder melts.

I have heard of using a toaster oven to do the whole board at once.

Im concerned if i did that that the small surface mount stuff on the bottom would fall off though.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Grambo

avatar

Posts : 116
Join date : 2013-01-30
Age : 30
Location : Saskatchewan, Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:21 pm

My advice is to not take the "shotgun" approach. Find out which chip is causing the issue by individually assessing and pressing down.

If you have a rework station, use that. If not, see if you can find a butane torch with an element attachment like this one:


I've fixed SMD chips a few times with my Weller Portasol now (my Super Everdrive was one of them). Just keep movement steady, don't apply heat longer than necessary, be wary of nearby components and use a low temperature (mine is STUPID hot even at its lowest setting).
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drakon
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1607
Join date : 2012-01-25
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:04 pm

I'd be really careful onechips are rare. Before doing anything I'd use a probe to check connectivity between each pin in the cartridge slot and the solder point of that pin on the underside of the pcb.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/
Grambo

avatar

Posts : 116
Join date : 2013-01-30
Age : 30
Location : Saskatchewan, Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:13 pm

Drakon wrote:
I'd be really careful onechips are rare.
Yes. Don't wreck it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
MaxWar

avatar

Posts : 63
Join date : 2013-06-01

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:33 pm

In this case I think I would reflow it by hand.

Apply flux to the pins then brush a fine tip soldering iron each pin at a time.
Last week I reflowed a SNES CPU this way while trying to troubleshoot a console with weird problems.
It did not solve my problem but It did not make it worse either.
You just need to make sure to not create bridges between pins.

Edit: Also, if you want to make continuity tests around the board, the guys over at NESDeV made a redrawn schematic of the console. If you did not know already.
Much easier to read than those originals that are available around!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Grambo

avatar

Posts : 116
Join date : 2013-01-30
Age : 30
Location : Saskatchewan, Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:58 pm

MaxWar wrote:
In this case I think I would reflow it by hand.

Apply flux to the pins then brush a fine tip soldering iron each pin at a time.
Last week I reflowed a SNES CPU this way while trying to troubleshoot a console with weird problems.
It did not solve my problem but It did not make it worse either.
You just need to make sure to not create bridges between pins.

Edit: Also, if you want to make continuity tests around the board, the guys over at NESDeV made a redrawn schematic of the console. If you did not know already.
Much easier to read than those originals that are available around!
I like this method too; Especially when there are nearby components. Make sure your iron is squeaky clean, it's easy to accidentally bridge pins.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drakon
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1607
Join date : 2012-01-25
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:20 am

God...I just don't like the idea of reflowing a onechip. Maxwar is the redrawn schematic a onechip schematic? There's multiple pcb revisions of the snes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/
MaxWar

avatar

Posts : 63
Join date : 2013-06-01

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:09 am

I think the Schematic is based on the original SNES but It can still help figuring where connections from cart slot go. Granted I have never worked on a 1chip so do not know how Alien they are inside. But the schematics helped me greatly when working on a GPM-02.


Get them here, In any case its a great thing to have on your hard drive !
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10470
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drakon
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1607
Join date : 2012-01-25
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:24 pm

The onechip should be completely different since they consolidated the two ppu chips into one.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/
mvsfan



Posts : 571
Join date : 2012-03-04

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:46 pm

I reflowed this whole board and it didnt make a difference.

it still does the same thing. Power light comes on - no video except for a flash when i flip the power switch. some games i can get the first screen that would come up and then they lock up.

btw i have tons of dead snes here so if it was a ram error or something i could use those if they are the same. the only thing i dont have is a spare 1chip.

but how would you find something like that?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drakon
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1607
Join date : 2012-01-25
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:48 pm

I recently revived a DOA sharp twin famicom if you read here:

http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/t335-twin-famicom-repair

After inspecting the pcb for broken traces I socketed all the major chips.  How the system came turning the power button I got a screen of garble that did nothing.  I socketed all the major chips (cpu, ppu, two main ram chips) and tested the chips in a working toaster with everything socketed until I found the chip that wouldn't go (ram chip).  Replaced the ram chip and all was revived.

The onechip snes you can't inspect many of the pcb traces, other thing would be to look for a part that's fallen off like a tiny surface mount part on the solder side maybe. If you can't find any pcb damage or missing parts and you really think one of the chips is dead then you could swap the chips but that's surface mount desoldering / soldering which takes practice.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/
mvsfan



Posts : 571
Join date : 2012-03-04

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:14 pm

Drakon wrote:
I recently revived a DOA sharp twin famicom if you read here:

http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/t335-twin-famicom-repair

After inspecting the pcb for broken traces I socketed all the major chips.  How the system came turning the power button I got a screen of garble that did nothing.  I socketed all the major chips (cpu, ppu, two main ram chips) and tested the chips in a working toaster with everything socketed until I found the chip that wouldn't go (ram chip).  Replaced the ram chip and all was revived.

The onechip snes you can't inspect many of the pcb traces, other thing would be to look for a part that's fallen off like a tiny surface mount part on the solder side maybe. If you can't find any pcb damage or missing parts and you really think one of the chips is dead then you could swap the chips but that's surface mount desoldering / soldering which takes practice.
thats a great idea for the nes to have a testbed with everything socketed.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
MaxWar

avatar

Posts : 63
Join date : 2013-06-01

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:19 pm

mvsfan wrote:
Drakon wrote:
I recently revived a DOA sharp twin famicom if you read here:

http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/t335-twin-famicom-repair

After inspecting the pcb for broken traces I socketed all the major chips.  How the system came turning the power button I got a screen of garble that did nothing.  I socketed all the major chips (cpu, ppu, two main ram chips) and tested the chips in a working toaster with everything socketed until I found the chip that wouldn't go (ram chip).  Replaced the ram chip and all was revived.

The onechip snes you can't inspect many of the pcb traces, other thing would be to look for a part that's fallen off like a tiny surface mount part on the solder side maybe.  If you can't find any pcb damage or missing parts and you really think one of the chips is dead then you could swap the chips but that's surface mount desoldering / soldering which takes practice.
thats a great idea for the nes to have a testbed with everything socketed.

I also have a borked SNES. It works, but controllers inputs will not work and it crashes at specific spots in most games. ( It was troubleshooted a lot and everything points to the CPU)
If everything was not SMD in the SNES I would try the socket and chip swap approach to be sure.

If I had more borked SNES I would try it any way but it is the only one I have. When you think about it, Out of 10 borked SNES you would be likely to obtain 8 working consoles just by swapping the bad parts.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mvsfan



Posts : 571
Join date : 2012-03-04

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:51 pm

MaxWar wrote:
mvsfan wrote:
Drakon wrote:
I recently revived a DOA sharp twin famicom if you read here:

http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/t335-twin-famicom-repair

After inspecting the pcb for broken traces I socketed all the major chips.  How the system came turning the power button I got a screen of garble that did nothing.  I socketed all the major chips (cpu, ppu, two main ram chips) and tested the chips in a working toaster with everything socketed until I found the chip that wouldn't go (ram chip).  Replaced the ram chip and all was revived.

The onechip snes you can't inspect many of the pcb traces, other thing would be to look for a part that's fallen off like a tiny surface mount part on the solder side maybe.  If you can't find any pcb damage or missing parts and you really think one of the chips is dead then you could swap the chips but that's surface mount desoldering / soldering which takes practice.
thats a great idea for the nes to have a testbed with everything socketed.

I also have a borked SNES. It works, but controllers inputs will not work and it crashes at specific spots in most games. ( It was troubleshooted a lot and everything points to the CPU)
If everything was not SMD in the SNES I would try the socket and chip swap approach to be sure.

If I had more borked SNES I would try it any way but it is the only one I have. When you think about it, Out of 10 borked SNES you would be likely to obtain 8 working consoles just by swapping the bad parts.
Ive been borrowing the power input connectors off of my glitchy snes' up till now.

this is my second 1-chip ive had that was messed up though and it would be great to fix one instead of putting it on the pile.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
MaxWar

avatar

Posts : 63
Join date : 2013-06-01

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:59 pm

So far here's what I do to fix broken power Input.
Those now use the Genesis Model 1 adapter, or equivalent.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
mvsfan



Posts : 571
Join date : 2012-03-04

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:08 pm

MaxWar wrote:
So far here's what I do to fix broken power Input.
Those now use the Genesis Model 1 adapter, or equivalent.

hyperkin makes a replacement panel with power connector but they are expensive. ive never used one. most of the time i just take one from a dead snes, or another thing i will do is take some mini needlenose pliers and crimp the two pins inside the broken connector closer together so they grab the pin in the power supply.

its not ideal but it works every time.

i like your replacement though. its the same as the superfamicom plug.

I still dont know why nintendo gave us this odd connector here.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drakon
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1607
Join date : 2012-01-25
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:36 pm

MaxWar wrote:
So far here's what I do to fix broken power Input.
Those now use the Genesis Model 1 adapter, or equivalent.
For my onechip american snes systems I just bought some cheap super famicoms and swapped the cases / backplates to convert them into onechip super famicoms.  The snes pcb is the same as the super famicom you just need to swap the back plate which is just held in with the power jack.  Once you swap the back plate you get a super famicom power jack so it'll use a model 1 genesis power brick / standard sfc brick (same thing).  Plus the super famicom case looks way better than a snes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/
MaxWar

avatar

Posts : 63
Join date : 2013-06-01

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:19 pm

And then you put the Super famicom boards in the SNES case?

Edit: The real question I guess was: Do you actually sacrifice a console in the operation?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Drakon
Admin
Admin
avatar

Posts : 1607
Join date : 2012-01-25
Location : Canada

PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:13 am

MaxWar wrote:
And then you put the Super famicom boards in the SNES case?

Edit: The real question I guess was: Do you actually sacrifice a console in the operation?
No sacrifice like you guessed just a straight swap.  You take a onechip snes and a non-one chip super famicom.  You take them out, swap the back plates and swap the cases.  Now your onechip is in a nice super famicom case and your two ppu snes is in a fugly american snes case.  The backplates are straight swappable no rewiring is needed, you just desolder one and solder in the other.  Since the backplate contains the power jack once you swap it you also swap the type of power jack your system takes.  Whatever system winds up in the super famicom case can take more common power supplies, it's only systems in snes cases that need the less common snes power brick.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://16bitgamer.canadian-forum.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?   

Back to top Go down
 
whats the best way to reflow an snes motherboard?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» snes wolf 3d sprites
» Whats your favourite dessert?
» Whats your statistics?
» Hey! Whats cracking.
» SNES, retro-styled MMORPG?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
 :: Projects / Showcase :: Works in Progress-
Jump to: